Episode Transcript:
Christina Chartrand: Hi and welcome to another episode of LIFE Conversations. My name is Christina Chartrand and I'd like to welcome you to our series this year. This is actually our first for 2025. We've been so busy and we wanted to kick off this year with a guest speaker who actually does a lot of podcasts himself. So I definitely want to introduce you to that. It is Richard Wexler and he is with a—do you call it a company? Are you guys calling it a company? I feel like it's a mission.
Richard Wexler: It's an organization. It's a mission. It's actually an organization since we're a nonprofit, but you're correct. It's a mission.
Christina Chartrand: All right. Yeah. And it's called APlan2Age. And I love the concept. I love the idea behind it because it just says so much about a lot of the conversations that we have here on this podcast. So I'd really like to welcome you today. Why don't you share a little bit about you and then we'll dive into your organization's mission. So tell me a little bit about your background.
Richard Wexler: So my background is kind of interesting. After years in the legal industry, I made a transition into the software industry. That's where I was 20 years ago when my life changed. I had gotten married later, had two small kids at that point. My wife and I had all four parents alive in their eighties. We were the average American couple and never really talked about what would happen if something happened to them.
Then in the summer of '05, the phone started ringing—and it rang four times. They were seriously ill. All of a sudden we were on this new adventure that we had never planned for or talked about. That adventure lasted 14 years until the last parent passed away in 2019 at 96.
So go back to about '06. I could barely spell the word "care," left what I was doing in the software industry, started my first company, Points of Life, started studying everything I could possibly study, and eventually got thrown out of my office—I'm kidding—by some gentlemen who said, "Go out there and educate."
I started educating about the complexities of aging and care in the Bay Area where I was living, and then eventually throughout the United States and internationally as well.
Christina Chartrand: Wow. It's very interesting because I think probably a lot of our listeners and a lot of the people that we come across—you don't really know anything about it until it hits you. And obviously, it hit you with four people, four family members that you and your wife were trying to navigate and figure out.
I find that every conversation that I personally have with friends of mine—because I'm in that age bracket where our parents are aging—they don't know how to navigate the system. I also like to think about this, and I talk about it a lot: it's kind of like the white elephant in the room. Nobody wants to talk about it. It's sitting there, large and enormous, and nobody wants to approach their loved ones about planning or even thinking about it.
Then what happens is, the situation happens, and then they go, "What do I do next?"
Did you kind of have that similar feeling? And are many of the people that you're helping right now in that same situation?
Richard Wexler: Yeah. So, yes and yes. Most people are exactly in that situation. First of all, people don't think about it. You're running your own lives. Maybe you're 40, 45, 50ish like I was as parents are aging. You realize something may happen at some point, but you have so much going on in your own life—with a spouse, a partner, kids, a job, just trying to keep all that moving forward.
So the last thing you're thinking about is, "What if something happens to mom or dad or grandparents?" if you're possibly a little bit younger.
Most people don't understand—we actually teach, and we'll talk about this in APlan2Age—what I call the family conversation. That conversation that everyone should be having, but most people, including my wife and myself, didn't.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah. I find it very similar. It's very parallel in my life because I've been in the senior care business for probably 20 years. I talk about it all the time. I talk about all the elements that need to be considered in planning and navigating the healthcare system.
But when it's actually your own family member, I find myself—with my 86-year-old mom—that I have a harder time articulating what needs to happen. I love that you're bringing up that family conversation. What are some tips and tricks for really starting that conversation?
Richard Wexler: Sure. I've been telling people this for a long time: the last thing you want to do is pick up the phone and go, "Hey Mom, we need to talk!" That's not going to work.
First thing you need to do—and we teach this within APlan2Age—you need to reach out to siblings if you have brothers and sisters. Talk about this as a group because the last thing you want to do if there are three, four, or five of you is all be on the phone at once calling mom.
You want to decide: Is it the alpha dog? Is it the person who has the closest relationship to mom? Maybe that's the youngest daughter or son.
Then, when you eventually talk to mom or dad or grandparents, one of the things you want to do is simply say, "Hey Mom, I could use some advice." Most of the time, your parent who loves you is not going to say no. They're going to say, "What do you need? What's happening?" And that can slowly start the conversation.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, I think you bring up a really good point. I know people talk about this "role reversal" thing, and I actually don't believe in role reversal. Yes, there are points where you may be stepping in and supporting and helping your aging parent, but they're still your mom and they're still your dad. If you treat them like children—if you flip it and do that role reversal—we don't get very far.
Richard Wexler: Totally agree. And it's interesting too, when I've been out educating people, I also get that question from 85-year-old moms. The oldest person I ever had in my audience—I don't think she's still with us—was 106.
But that 85-year-old mom wants to know, "I need to speak to my adult children." It's the same type of phone call that they're making to their children because hopefully they're wise enough to understand:
"My kids need to know what I want, where I want to live. God forbid something were to happen to me, who do I want taking care of me?"
So yes, you want to make sure you're treating them as your parents, as your grandparents. And if you're that parent or grandparent, you're having a really nice conversation with those adult children, those grandchildren, about this issue.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, no, I completely agree. Before we dive into all the cool resources that you have available, one of the things that I have seen—and this may be happening with some of the folks who are beginning to think about planning—is that the Boomers have cared for their Traditionalist parents.
They kicked in and they've done all of this, right? And it's been exhausting, and it's hard, and it's managing all the day-to-day responsibilities. What I'm feeling—I'm beginning to get a small sense of it, not huge yet—is Boomers saying, "You know what? I don't want to be a 'burden' to my children. I want to plan. I want to think ahead a little bit, so that I can put a better plan in place where I'm not going to have to rely on my kids. I can be more in control of my aging process."
What are your thoughts on that?
Richard Wexler: I think you're precisely right. Since the Boomers—we're looking at a very difficult situation now. The oldest Boomers are turning 80 as we speak. I'm smack in the middle of that generation. It was yo-yos and hula hoops—and all of a sudden now, 80 years of age for the oldest Boomers.
But I agree with you. What they're learning in taking care of mom and dad—whether they're physically doing it or doing all the ancillary things like setting up care in the home or setting up an assisted living or whatever it may be—they're learning from it.
And, as you say, I hope they're learning and realizing they should be having this conversation with their children as well.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, and it's interesting because I feel like your resources and information almost have a dual role. It is one for people who are searching for help for their parents, but it's also for people like me—you know, I'm turning 60 this year—and I want to begin to think about what that future potentially is going to look like for me and be able to plan for that future.
I don't have kids, and I want to put a plan in place. So I feel like you may even have two audiences.
Richard Wexler: You're precisely right. And especially in that situation: What are you going to do as you age? Is a friend going to help? Is a neighbor going to help? Is someone at the gym going to help? If there are no children, what are you going to do?
That even makes the plan that you're talking about putting together even more necessary. You really need to understand, because as we age, we want to still have a great life—if we can and if our body and our mind allow us to do that. We want to make sure we're living where we want to live. We want to make sure if we need care, we're getting the proper care.
But we also need to understand something that a lot of people don't understand: care is expensive. And you need to start planning for that at an early age.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, no, it's very true. One of the things at Senior Helpers and obviously across the country, we're beginning to get this wave of the importance of Age-Friendly Care. And one of the key questions when we talk about Age-Friendly Care is: "What matters most?" I think that's an important question to ask yourself: What do you want? What matters most to you? But also asking your loved one or your aging parents: What matters most? Where do you want to live? What's going to be most important to you when creating this plan of care? I think just having those open conversations is really key.
Richard Wexler: As we coach people and teach them within APlan2Age, it's the first couple of questions to ask. "So Mom, as you age, where do you and Dad want to live?" They're probably going to say "at home."
Then it has to be figured out if that's realistic based on a lot of factors. You're going to say something like, "God forbid something happens to you or Dad. Who do you want taking care of you?" They may look at you—or they may think in a different direction—but those two questions are so important. They're probably the first two questions you should be asking Mom, Dad, grandparents, etc.\
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, no, I agree. Well, tell me about your organization. Tell me how this got started and tell me all the different resources that you have available.
Richard Wexler: Doing my podcast, Caring in America, a little over a year ago, Peter Ross was on the podcast. We started talking. I think it was after the podcast that we reconnected, and I proposed this crazy idea that's been in the back of my head for probably 15-plus years. I initially called it a "National Conversation About Aging." He got it right away and said, "I'd like to help you put something together." So we kept talking week after week after week for the last year.
Finally, in the fall—this past fall in '24—the name came to be. We started putting the site together, and we launched it in January, a couple of months ago. The idea is exactly what it says. We are literally teaching people why it's so important to plan, not only as you age but as older loved ones age as well. Peter, being as bright as he is, and through our conversations, realized:
Let's say 10 years from now, it's going fantastic—but most people will probably still deal with this in crisis. So there are two pieces to this site: the part to really understand and plan, and also the piece that's going to help you now because you're already in crisis with a loved one.
Christina Chartrand: So tell me about the planning piece first. What are some of the key elements that are important when thinking about planning, and when do you start?
Richard Wexler: As soon as you possibly can.
I've been out there teaching grandkids who are in their 30s to understand—especially if you're starting to make some money—that at some point, Mom, Grandma, or Grandparents may come to you and ask for some financial help to help them with care. So the earlier, the better. But please, start at some point.
Again, we teach that family conversation. We have also put together a family care plan. That's a document you can go into with instructions, fill it out. You are actually making a plan for your family. You can then download that plan.
The hope is you're coming back to that whenever something changes within the family—could be their health, could be something else, someone loses a job, someone gets a new job—you update that plan.
So it's really starting this whole process and helping people actually plan.
Christina Chartrand: I like that. The planning piece—what's the biggest mistake people make in the planning process?
Richard Wexler: First of all, it's how they start that conversation. People don't think this is that difficult—until you get there or you work in an industry like you do and you see this on a daily basis.
Something happens to Mom—she falls and breaks her hip. Dad has a stroke—whatever it may be.
You think, "We'll be there for a few days," I emphasize few days, "and they'll need care." When in reality, it could be a few years.
So part of this planning is understanding that if something happens to them where they're going to need care for a long period of time— Maybe they can't afford a company like Senior Helpers. Maybe they can't take Mom to an assisted living. Maybe it's going to be that adult child. That adult child—and the other siblings—need to understand: this could be a long process. Part of that planning is preparing for that.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, I can see that. It's so very important, as we know, to really begin thinking about planning. But I personally don't see tons of planning right now. I'm hoping more and more that this is going to happen. So let's talk about the crisis part, because that's the part I see the most. The crisis. Those are the ones that people are reaching out to me immediately: "Hey, I see you're in the business. My mom's in the hospital. She's going to rehab, and now she's got to go home." Crisis mode.
Richard Wexler: Sure.
Christina Chartrand: So let's talk about crisis—what do you do to help support that?
Richard Wexler: Having been there, Peter's been there—we understand what people are going through. We understand getting that text, getting that phone call:
"Mom's in the ER." She's probably broken something—it turns out to be a hip. She's going to be there for a few days, hopefully get through surgery.
Then what? Probably off to skilled nursing. Then what? So we're putting all the resources on the site. We are also adding resources to the site.
Part of what's happening within the senior care industry—and I've known this for a long time—you may possibly agree: it's made up of a lot of silos. So when you're now trying to manage the care that Mom's going to need after that broken hip, where are all these resources?
We are trying to bring them under one roof within APlan2Age. So you want to keep Mom at home? You need to reach out to Senior Helpers. You want to possibly take Mom to an assisted living? One of our advisory council members is A Place for Mom—you can reach out to them or other folks like that to find out what's out there.
You need to understand all the different components, and we put those on the website that you're going to need. Because again, Mom's care, unfortunately, is probably not going to be for a few days or a week—but a lot longer than that.
Christina Chartrand: No, it's a really good point. I think sometimes the other piece of this is helping to navigate working with the social worker or the discharge planner: What can I ask? What should I ask? Do I have a choice? I find that, for me and in many of my situations where I'm supporting families, I'm helping them through that process as well.
Richard Wexler: Yes.
Christina Chartrand: Because I don't think they understand that they do have a choice. They can ask if there's a specific rehab or a specific home health company or therapy provider. They can begin to ask those questions and be truly a part of the discharge process, versus just allowing someone else to make all the decisions without anybody advocating for them. I find that very frustrating.
And then, of course, there's the piece about getting home and figuring out what they're going to do once they're home. Do you run into that as well?
Richard Wexler: I completely agree with you. You're now in the hospital with Mom, you're in her room, you're feeling intimidated— All these people are coming in. But you need to understand exactly what you said:
Have a deep conversation with the social worker. Have a deep conversation with the case manager. Really talk with the discharge planner. Understand what Mom's wants and needs are—and what makes sense for her. Is she set up at home? Instead of going to skilled nursing, could she have home health within the home where she's comfortable?
But most people don't understand the difference between home health and home care and what they do. Part of that again goes back to that planning piece—so that hopefully you already understand this.
So just like you say, when you're now in that position, you know the right questions to ask the case manager, the social worker, the discharge planner. Part of what we put on the site too is geriatric care managers. Their association is called the Aging Life Care Association. That's someone you can reach out to, someone you can talk to. If you don't know what to do, you need someone who understands this. That's a perfect resource for you, especially if you're dealing with Mom or Dad or Grandparents multiple states away or across the country.
Christina Chartrand: Yeah, very good point. Well, Richard, how do people find you? How do they get to your resources?
Richard Wexler: Pretty simple: APlan2Age—www.aplan2age.org. And the "2" in there is actually the number 2. So, aplan2age.org.
We are a 501(c)(3) nonprofit foundation. Our goal is pretty simple: We just want to help. The more people we can get to plan—and I agree with what you said—not many people plan right now. We're hoping to change that. But we also want to be there with advice, with people you can talk to, with providers, when you find yourself in crisis and you're juggling and scrambling, trying to figure out: How do I manage my own life still, and how do I manage this situation for Mom, Dad, etc.?
Christina Chartrand: Well, now we know how to find you. We'll make sure that is attached to today's podcast as well. So one departing question before we end—what is your biggest piece of advice to all of our listeners out there?
Richard Wexler: First thing I would do: If you have someone in your life—a spouse, partner, or maybe if you're 50 years old you have some older kids—start talking about this. Start talking about, "Hey, you know, Grandma's in her 80s now," or, "Hey, you know, Grandpa is 93, he's doing great, but at some point, something's probably going to happen." Just start this conversation within the four walls of your family. Then branch it out to other siblings. Then branch it out to Mom, Dad, etc. But it's got to start someplace. And we have to realize—this is reality—at some point, something usually happens to us.
Christina Chartrand: Yep. Well, this was fantastic. What a great conversation today!
Great way to kick off our 2025 series, and so glad to speak with you, Richard. Thank you so much for all the work that you do in really supporting seniors and helping families.
Richard Wexler: Thank you. Thank you, Christina. Very much appreciate it.
